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RG: "Now the Karmapa, when he was alive, heard a group of Westerners playing these singing bowls, they played for him. And the Karmapa himself, he said that this sound of the singing bowl is the sound of the Void 7 . What do you think he meant by that?"

LLM: "Most people they don't know, just their listening for sound. Someone who has emptiness, meditation, samadhi, definitely they get teaching from those singing bowls."

RG: "So you think these singing bowls were made in eastern Tibet, near the Chinese border, what previously was the Chinese border?"

LLM: "Chinese border. Lama Leshe says that this quality is very top quality, many different jewels are inside, gold, silver, so many different jewels are mixed in this. Before they had one set of offering bowls, we call 'Mego Gutsag'. If we see like this nine heads, it's really very valuable."

RG: "And what would these heads be?"

LLM: "They say 'Mego Gutsag'. They had two factories there, one is in Jang and one is in Hor. Jang made its sign, nine head is the sign of Jang, from that factory. Hor has most . . . Hor their making so many beating marks, so that means it's made from Hor."

RG: "This nine head, this would be cut into the metal? How is it put in the metal? It's like the maker's sign, right?"

LLM: "No, no. If you look at it from the side it looks like nine, nine heads, one on top of the other. We can see them, very smooth. One have like this, one has like this. So nine is, we can see . . ."

RG: "Like on Padmasambhava's staff, how they have the three heads, one on top of the other."

LLM: "Yes, yes."

An antique Tibetan singing bowl setRG: "I noticed he was just looking at this bowl for something. He was looking to see if he could see anything there? He was looking at the bottom, examining the bottom very carefully. A lot of these bowls being very old and worn . . . the beating marks."

LLM: "Yes, beating marks. It definitely comes from Hor because of the beating marks."

RG: "So this was previously a famous metal working center before the Chinese invaded?"

LLM: "Famous before the Chinese invaded Tibet. Hor was famous. Nobody can reproduce this quality."

RG: "So do you think that this technique, who ever had the secret of making them, is now lost?"

LLM: "I think so. Very long time ago."

RG: "How old is he, Lama Lobsang Leshe, actually? Does he know approximately how old he is?"

LLM: "Seventy."

RG: "Because in our inquiries, of trying to get this information on Tibetan singing bowls, originally we asked Ama-la, and she also . . . How old is Ama-la now?"

LLM: "Fifty-eight."

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